I was very iffy about whether or not I should post this, but I'm pretty sure this is a legitimate question to the band.

Your new album is getting mixed reviews. You guys really hyped this album up a lot, but it seems like, at least thus far, the majority of people are unhappy about the direction you guys have chosen to to take the music.

So I have two brief questions:

1.) How do you guys feel ISOSG stacks up against your last album and, if it's okay for me to ask, the EP that shall not be named?

2.) Most of the people on the board or people who watched the live feed are well aware that you guys had some "heavier" material from the Hurley Studios sessions, which signifies that it was there, but you guys decided to scrap it. My question is this: what made you guys decide to go in a more poppy direction for the album, and do you plan to continue in this direction headed towards the future?

For the record, I actually do really like this album, but you guys changed your sound virtually out of nowhere. I showed my friend Changing a couple of weeks ago, and he couldn't guess who it was until I told him.

good questions, i'd like to know too.
i wanna know what they have to say about it too, i like the record too but i'd like to know what
inspired this change.
you read my mind about asking in what direction they're heading for in the future, although it might be
too soon to tell.

I think the label had to do with the poppy stuff

but what were we made for is the real only pop song off the album i can think of, maybe deep down? but i think deep down is a real good song, pretty much everyone thinks so i think

not that it's a bad thing, but i'd definitely say this album does fall under the pop genre. chris, you're only thinking of pop songs as the catchy, upbeat ones. let's not forget about the slower yet still poppy, radio friendly songs like it's all over now and nothing is what it seems. not to mention the fact that why can't you see is pretty much a pop song too. i basically chose to ask the questions that everyone has essentially been asking since this album leaked/got released in japan.

EDIT: and i didn't say the pop songs are bad; i love deep down. i completely disagree with people who associate pop with talentless. are most pop artists without a clue? absolutely, but that doesn't mean that there aren't at least a few competent pop artists and bands (i.e. justin timberlake) there is such a thing as tasteful pop. i think this album, for the most part, encompasses that.

And what happened with the guitars & drums Beau,you seem to be so fond of playing your instruments so brilliantly that each of them stand out on its own,guitars just seem too dull so are the drums

unless beau tells us strait up, "the label MADE us take out so and so riff/drum fill", i don't think this is a fair question to ask. We already know alex sometimes takes it easy on the recordings so it doesn't take a way from the vocals, and maybe they tried some riffs and they just didn't sound right in the song.

I think a big factor contributing to this being labeled as "pop" is the song structure. Every song seems to have more or less the same structure: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, ending chorus. And while the band has said in the past that they've always done things that way, even dating back to TTN, I think what sets the new "poppy" stuff apart from the older stuff is the emphasis on having big choruses, that occur early and often in every song. After a few songs it gets very predictable- you can call the chorus on your first listen through the album based on all the songs before it. And then the song ends with an even bigger version of the chorus and I'm often wondering what else could have been done musically. This is one of the reasons why I like I Keep My Secrets Safe so much, not because of the screaming (though I do think it is badass), but because the screaming and extended bridge make a song element not really seen anywhere else on the album, and I wish there was more variation like this. I don't want to give you the impression that I'm knocking any of the album, because I do like a lot of what I hear, but my question for the guys is: When you listen through the album front to back, do you notice that just about every song follows the same pattern of ABABCB with predictably similar progression and emphasis on catchy, and quite frankly, a little musically uncreative choruses and song structure. In general it works, but to me it gets tired, especially after I've been trained to listen for it with all the other popular music out there today.

it's fine if you want to call it uncreative, but they have always written songs in that fashion. in fact, i'm 90% sure that every song on the s/t is something like that ABABCB structure. Either way, that's not what makes for a pop song. You can use that song structure in any kind of music ranging from radio disney to metalcore.

also, i'm not asking beau about how evil the label is or why there isn't more "shreddage" on the album. i have two very answerable questions... unless, of course, everything said about the label is true, and they don't believe in the record. that's the main thing i want to see get cleared up.

You apparently did not read/comprehend my entire post. And I'm sort of lumping the two LPs together here. What I'm saying is that it wasn't uncreative for the S/T to have song structures that way because that album represented an entirely new sound for the band, whereas ISOSG is a continuation in that same direction, it's a severe lack of creativity to release a follow up album with such little variation of this sound.

okay, but you kind of missed the point of what i was saying. song structure does nothing to affect the genre of music. a big chorus doesn't make for a pop song. the self titled used the same song structure and the idea of using big choruses in every song.

basically, you're post had no purpose... even if it was accurate... because it's not even what i'm questioning.

EDIT: just saw your edit; what you're saying makes a little more sense now, so i take away the last thing i said but stand by the first haha.

First: I was using this thread to write my own question, I figured it was appropriate to post it here because both questions were regarding the new album, and it's neater to post it here than to have all these threads asking different questions about the same album.

Second: As I already explained, I don't think it's just the song structure that contributes to this being pop, but the combination of the song structure with the choruses. I think having big catchy choruses early and often in songs is a central component of pop music. Infectious melody, repetitive catchy chorus, and that ABABCB strong structure is what pop music is in my mind. What else what you attribute to the genre besides these things?

Third: Why are we distinguishing ISOSG as a pop record and not the s/t? They fall into the same genre, whatever you decide to label that genre as. Note how I'm not saying the CDs are exactly the same, or that they're drastically different.

What I put in bold is what i believe to be the two trademarks of a pop song. Also, I know it sounds simple, but bringing the vocals waaay out into the forefront contributes too. When you couple a simple song structure with those other things, then yes, you are correct, it is pop music. i think it's slightly harder to label the last album as such though. perhaps i'm missing a part of what makes pop music, but i just can't accept that the last album was a pop album due to my instincts. the only radio friendly song was you're not alone, and that actually doesn't sound like a completely traditional radio song. maybe i don't feel it's pop due to the fact that the intensity was there both vocally and instrumentally?

I think this is a good discussion we got going here. Anyway, I wonder what your definition of "radio friendly" is, because I feel like I could easily hear 80% of either albums on the radio. I'm also weary to dub pop as things you hear on the radio. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that I think either of the CDs are pop, but I'm saying that I think both CDs are the same genre of music, whatever genre that may be, and I wish there was more variation between the songs.

well, if we start to venture outside of the realm of music, we'd find that pop is actually just more or less music that would appeal to most people. the radio is open to playing songs that people will keep coming back for. to me "a radio friendly" song is one that could be heard on the radio because it would be appealing to the mass majority of people who are just fans of music in general. why do you think things like Kid Cudi and Kings of Leon are now getting serious Top 40 radio airplay? ISOSG is filled with songs that could be on the radio, and that's where it starts. whether they get time on the radio (whether it be XM or FM) is all circumstantial. could you really see it's far better to learn, collapse, sleepers, etc. on the radio? XM, maybe. but capitol would absolutely love to see saosin break out in the top 40 world, and the previous album had no chance of making that happen.

voices and you're not alone had extended radio play. i've heard bury your head on kroq also....can't remember if it was in the rotation at all or if it was catch of the day or something.

personally i think that every song on s/t could have been on the radio, just as the songs from ISOSG could be. so i agree with spenser.

In regards to the s/t, I could feasibly imagine hearing everything except for Collapse, It's Far Better to Learn, New Angel, and Some Sense of Security on alternative radio. And I think that's true for all other radio friendly albums out there- they all have songs that you wouldn't hear on the radio while in whole being a radio friendly compilation. There are songs on the new Kings of Leon album that I couldn't hear being on the radio, but most would agree that it is radio friendly music.

well, when referring to pop, you're talking top 40 stations, and that's the difference between ISOSG and the s/t. the s/t would never be heard on a top 40 station. i can see most of the songs on ISOSG being on a top 40 radio station if things play out correctly for them.

that's what makes ISOSG pop and the s/t not.

Ok well I dunno I think it's sort of flimsy to define pop as things you'd hear on the top 40 radio stations in the nation, but I'm satisfied with agreeing to disagree on this.

i don't know about anything by saosin being on top 40 radio because these days it's rare to hear any rock band on a top 40 radio
station. now it's kings of leon and they probably throw in some cobra starship or boys like girls every now and then.
no doubt that they could be played on a modern rock station though, even stuff off of the s/t. the "poppier" songs just seem
like they would appeal to a broader audience who wouldn't normally listen to saosin.

i say we stop arguing in this thread since this is for the band to answer, there are already enough threads going on in the saosin section.

I'm not saying that's all that it is, but I just feel it's got to be taken into consideration. Maybe the best way to describe the band's albums is musical identity crisis. As marlon said though, we could do this all day in the saosection; let's just wait to hear what the band has to say in regards to the questions asked earlier.

i just assumed ddj446 was in the band...oops

EDIT: my name is mejdy btw. i don't like being referred to by my username because it's just long and awkward when used in conversation (i.e. just now)

They have no sort of identity crisis my friend,Saosin is one of the few bands having a trademark style of music of there own.Pop is usually the stuff in which the vocals are given more emphasis than the instruments.Spenser has nice points about choruses & other things.I dont know about that radio stuff

We already have a thread about this topic, we should just let them answer it and see what they say.

ok, so after reading all of the replies back and forth.... what is the question?

beau

i think this was mainly what was on everyones mind

what greg said

EDIT: i just read the article in AP... saosin really ought to get off of capitol ASAP...

you guys killed our chances of getting our questions asked sooner.
i knew we shouldn't have posted in this thread.

as i am in my hotel room in athens greece, about to come home from my honeymoon, ill try to quickly answer these questions, so please excuse the briefness..... (is that a word??)

to me, all 3 releases are completely different... they are all years apart from each other... each release is what we wanted to do at that time and i don't really compare the records any more than i compare songs to other songs on a record.. hopefully each record offers something different for the listener to take hold of. if a person wants to hear old shreddy songs, they can still listen to those songs... there is no need to recreate them.. (and we still play them live)

the heavier songs were not completed in time for the release date.. thats why they didn't end up on the record.. but now listening to the record, i dont really see where the super heavy songs would fit on the record, next to songs like "its all over now" and "fireflies" i think the record flows pretty good as it is, and personally i think the heavy jams would have taken away from the overall vibe of the record.
we may decide to finish them, assuming we have some time off to do so, and i'd like to still make the "heavy e.p." but only time will tell..

hopefully that helps clear some fog...

peace

beau

Spoken well Beau! We shouldn't look back at the albums as we did cause they're all different. It's nice to hear you guys put out something different and interesting. refreshing?
This is a great record you guys put out and a heavy ep sounds awesome for the future.

agreed


i mean, would we really want Saosin to do what Underoath did with their past two albums? they're like exactly the same

Yeah Lost in the Sound is pretty similar to Define. But Lost is better in a lot of ways.

It's refreshing to see Beau and the guys go into each album with something different in mind. I can hear a lot of growth. I love me some riffage though.

Yeee, well said.

well said.
missed you at the best buy show today in palmdale beau, congratulations on getting married!

i can respect beau's statement for what it is. as long as it was what the band wanted to do and not something they were coerced into doing by their label. nobody wants to listen to an album that isn't "real" to the group of guys that made it.

so yes, it clears a lot up.

Nice to hear that it was your guys decision to make a poppy record rather than labels influence.Nothing serious Beau,but if Someone wants to hear something like They perch,Collapse,Bury your head in near future,will they have to always wait for the b-sides or unreleased tracks which are not on the album[Bury me is awesome,i dont feel you guys recreated something on it,never mind the album is awesome]Good wishes for your marriage man!

That post pretty much explained it all for me.

They just wanted to do something different. I can see that now.

yeah, they could of very easily made a s/t pt 2, and everyone would of loved it, but they didn't, and i respect them for that. i love the new record regardless of whatever is said. well stated beau

on the itunes release, why was there no digital booklet like there was on the first album?

there wasnt any in the s/t only thing itunes had was let go control.